EMG Shows Non-Pathological Fascics?

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kyleetwat

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GdayCurIous how many people have had an EMG where fasics actually showed up. My last EMG showed fasics in 6 of 9 muscles (No PSW or Fibs). There was some speculation on this site that non pathological fasics (those in BFS) would not even show up on EMG. My neuro related an anectdote of a recent patient who initially only showed 1 Fib on EMG and 5 mnths later his EMG was full of PSW and FIBS, even on non symtomatic side. My neuro is adamant that I have follow up EMG at 6 mnthly intervals for next 12 mnths. Appreciate your timeMarty
 
Fasciculations always show on EMG if the needle tip is not far from their source. Its nonsense about not detecting benign twitches - its the same electricity. On EMG they can detect fasciculations even which are not seen or felt, just deeper in the muscle.Fasciculations on EMG are called fasciculation potentials. I wrote it sometime ago: its like a fever, thermometer will detect it no matter why the fever is present. And twitching is just electrical activity that can be easily picked up.So dont worry, EMG with only fasciculations is clean emg :)EDIT: One quote from tellemg.com:There is no "infallible" way to tell whether the fasciculating discharge by itself is benign or malignant. The decision is made based on "what kind of company they keep". A non-progressive course is reassuring. The "company they keep" is PWs,fibrillations etc. which you mentioned. Hope it helps :)
 
Hi MartyGood to hear from you again. I was delighted to hear that your EMG showed no sign of sinister pathology and that the only abnormality was the benign fasciculations that you have already been well aware of. I was interested in your neurologist's anecdote although I note that findings consistent with MND/ ALS were present (albeit mildly) on the initial EMG. Not surprisingly, the patient had deteriorated some months later and more pronounced EMG findings were evident. It's good that your neurologist is being ultra-cautious and arranging further follow up but I hope that this hasn't caused you any alarm. Your normal EMG and the duration of your symptoms must surely mean that you are in an extremely low-risk situation. I wonder whether our specialist colleagues treat us docs a bit differently and do tests that they might not otherwise do????All the best and hope you are feeling somewhat better.Regards from your twitchy Kiwi colleagueSimon
 
as blizna said....fascics are always seen im the emg if present in the tested muscle...but the anecdote makes me uncomfortable: just one fib is not much....i thought that with als there are also positive sharp waves.....shall i doubt my emg again thinking that they might have missed the single fib?;-(
 
Cheers guys for reassurance. been going a little cookoo of late. The physical progression over a long period of time without respite, and isolated nature of my symptoms ensure that when I experience any progression or new issues I go nuts. For a long time I have seen and witnessed the psychological impact of chronic illness on patients, it tends to wear one down. I think Im now sitting on the other side of the fence. Thanks again for you support.
 
I don't like seeing things like this anectode. I for one have had a single fib found in my rt. EBD muscle two months ago. I was told that this was quite normal to find in the feet and that based on the wave pattern of that muscle, it has most likely been present for over a year. I would think that if it meant something sinister, it would be present in more muscles, especially after a year. I have been told that ALS is a disease of the spinal column, and it starts with affecting the roots of nerves. I have also been told that if fibs/denervation is found in one muscle, it is most likely going to be found in other muscles that share the same nerve root, because even though it may begin with isolated symptoms, it is not an isolated disease. My report from the ALS specialist stated that I showed signs of mild to moderate denervation in my right EBD muscle, but that there were no signs which showed any indication of a motor neuron disease/ALS.
 
You are right not to like it, Nervousmommy. There are so many who talk about this fib and that fib; and it always sounds like a lie to me. :) What they are saying is: "I have a need to keep my anxiety." It is a kind of superstition. One day I felt like my dad while taking a sip of coffee, and I thought "my dad died of cancer." Quite a leap of logic, eh? From coffee to cancer.I've twitched for years, and I have had "bfs" for over five. I never looked into the differences between twitches and I'm glad of it. Some feel different than others, it's all part of the same deal...The End. Basso
 
Nervousmommy,Most of us here if we think about our case, investigate our bodies, and research all the possible scenarios, will find facts that make us panic and give us a place to focus our anxiety. I am fact gatherer by nature and have seen more than my share of case reports/anecdotes that will never allow me to be totally worry free. So what do I do? I may sound like a broken record with this but it is the only response that keeps me moving forward. The response I tell myself is there is no worry free life for anyone. We have to do what is doable and reasonable (we decide this for ourselves) and then try to embrace and revel in the wonders of life as long as we are able. I am still trying to figure out how much testing and how many doctor visits are reasonable for me. I have these symptoms. They are undeniable. They interfere with my life causing me to take Klonopin. I have objective evidence of neurological abnormalities but all the experts have no answers just speculation. A lot of other people have the same and live long quality-filled lives. I will do something everyday to increase the chance that I am one of them.Krackersones
 
Hi,There were no fascics seen in my EMG, but I switch very randomly and I think that I twitched even less that day. I asked him (he is a specialist in MNDs, MG and EMGs) if it could be too early and he said a very clear NO. He said that I could come back in 6 months. I asked him if it was needed and he said no, and the only reason he said it was that some people feel better about it.I have been feeling a little unbalanced, my neck has been feeling funny, along with my speech. I was reassuring myself from what the doctor said and now I read this. Argghhhhh..... I hope that I can relax again. :(Why do these little bits of information surface this way?Rachel
 
Rachel, have you not ever listened to a phone-in radio program, or even discussed a hot-topic with friends in your living-room. People throw out all kinds of misinformation, because most people don't actually ever use their critical faculties. They actually don't know what they feel about a certain issue, so they just trot out the usual rhetoric; and some can't even manage good rhetoric. The information, or misinformation, on this board is no different. In you real life you have filters that regard and disregard stuff all the time, it's just that with bfs, you've let your filter be turned off. You are a vacuum sucking up everything and then feeling clogged up with a huge ball of misinformed lint. Your neuro told you the facts. Give the guy some credit, cut yourself some slack, and enjoy a piece of cheesecake. A researcher at the university I work at got a huge grant, we're talking thousands of dollars, to delve into the mysteries of a woman's menstrual cycle. She studied all the minutia of the cycle, and poured over mountains of statistical data. At the end of her research she came up with the startling conclusion that because of such and such and so on that women were more cranky while having their periods. Well Hallelujah, Praise BE! No one would have ever guessed. :LOL: The point is that we bfsers don't need more studies, information, or tests. At the end of the day we are fine, except we have a benign, annoying syndrome.Basso
 
For the record, I've had two EMGs; one showed the fasics, the other didn't. Either way, all it showed was that I twitch (surprise!) and that they didn't show any other "bad company." It's nonsense that you can tell one fasic from another on an EMG, it's the other things they find that point them towards a diagnosis. Heck, it's even how they diagnose BFS-- they see fasics and everything else is otherwise clean, that's the definition of our strange little condition.
 
Hey guys...once again...I have had a minimally abnormal EMG. I had denervation/renervation in my foot that showed up on EMG. My right EBD muscle in my foot is significantly smaller. The specialist I saw told me that I didn't even require a follow up because it is so common for fibs and fascics to show up in the feet. Our feet take a beating even when wearing shoes that fit tight. She guesses mine was from wearing uncomfortable tight ski boots for 2 days in a row. That was almost 2 1/2 years ago. An EMG can even tell by looking at the waves, around the time that denervation began. She assured me that mine most likely occurred at least a year again. I am confident that within a year if it was something sinister, it would have spread beyond that one muscle, and she EMGed over 20 muscles. As much as I ask for advice and freak out, I am well aware that if we obsess so much over something, we will find what we're looking for, whether that be atrophy or dents, or bigger or smaller muscles. Oh, I also had a fascic show up in my EMG and the specialist thought nothing of it. I'm really trying to get my anxiety under control. Sorry, this post is way off topic and all over the place. I just want to tell people that I have heard that EMGs can pick up ALS even before symptoms begin and it is kind of fishy to me that only one muscle had a fib in the anecdote that was given. We aren't given any information as to whether any other muscles along that same nerve root were tested. If they were, I'm sure more abnormalities would have shown up.
 

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