Thanks to All for Support

I don't have a need to come to this site anymore, however I want to thank everyone that has PM'ed me about my initial post here. I am thrilled that it has helped many of you and glad to hear that some of you are doing a lot better because of it. That was the purpose of my post. I am doing great and am getting better everyday. Most of you can be free from the condition too if you put forth the effort.
 
I remember asking my Dr. if anxiety caused this, he laughed and said, NO. Now if you ask a shrink they will tell you the opposite. Reading that list alot of them describe how I feel when I AM HAVING a panic attack, there and then, not after it. Yes stress can do some things to the body, but I am sure if you send your counselors some of the videos of people's twitches on here, where there whole muscle contracts they will probably say, hmmm, maybe not anxiety. I can tell you that my ratchety muscle and bouncing of my hand is not anxiety. Like I said before if this is to be true that we have so much anxiety and are adrenline glands are crazy then I think it would show up in the bloodwork, at least a little bit. I mean if my body is that out of whack from anxiety.

This list, how do they know that maybe the patients do not have anything else going on with them but have anxiety because of the symptoms from the illness.

I think more and more that this is autoimmune. Man just think about all the people in the world with anxiety, we would all be a mess by the looks of that list.

I was dx with GAD also but of course never dx until AFTER I was sick which what was producing my GAD. THis is just silly..Jenn
 
Well folks, I am living proof that anxiety can cause this. I came here to help not start and be involved in a debate. By addressing the underlying (some hidden) anxiety issues that I had it went away. If I had some other disease that wouldn't have occured. The facts are what they are, been there and done that. I was told that if I would address all the issues I had, accepting that I do not have any sinister disease that these symptoms would eventually fade away. Well, guess what? A year later (after a LOT of hard work) I am symptom free. I don't know what more proof any of you need. Unless you just don't believe me.

For someone to come in here and say this is not the case is doing a SERIOUS disservice to those here that do have this because of "nervous system burnout" which I am convinced is the majority by reading the types of posts here. Now that I know what I know about this condition I can just "hear" it in these posts.

I know one thing is fact. If I still felt that I had some sinister disease causing this I wouldn't be any better today than I was a year ago. That much I do know. I would still be trapped in this thing.

To anyone reading this, if you're someone that tends to worry about your health, run to the computer to look up symptoms you have on the internet, think the worst when you have a symptom, are hypersensative about your body as someone put it, think about your symptoms every day, often doubt your doctor dx, etc., if you are any ONE of those things then I am convinced there is a 99.99% chance that you are suffering from this for the same reason I was.

I always get a chuckle out of one poster on that anxiety site. He said his doctor gave him a presciption that he said would help ease his symptoms. He said when he read it it just said "Unplug your computer and keep it off".

Good folks I am done here. One of my recovery strategies was to do that exact thing and stay off of these sites. Anxiety tends to be contageous so to speak. I only came back here to thank some folks that thanked me for my initial post. I am glad it was helpful to them since that was the purpose. However it's not good for me to be debating this, I can already feel it affecting me. I didn't sleep well lastnight after thinking about this all day yesterday. I can tell I was getting "revved up" again. So far no buzzing or twitching but I don't want to push my luck. I used to be able to bring that crap back just by thinking about it.

I wish you all the best. If anyone ever has any specific questions about how I recovered feel free to PM me. I am notified by email when you do that. Other than that I am going to continue to do what made me better and that includes staying off these types of sites. I consider this chapter of my life closed.
 
I would like to explore this further in my own life. Please hear me out.

I remember years ago when I was in Jr. College. I read Plato and other philosphers. Reading these books made me think that I have very little control in my life and did not know what I was doing.

I could not sleep properly for a few days. It made me full of anxiety.

Now when I went for back surgery, the interesting thing was my symptoms by back surgery patients were not so bad. I could bend without pain. My problem was numbness. I could not feel parts of my leg and feet (most of that came back). But I was full of anxiety especially for the first few months.

My mom is an eye twitcher. It might happen all the time. I really do not pay attention. But she is constantly worried about her daughters (my sisters), and my sister's kids. Is there an anxiety relationship here?

My son's biggest problem at school is he get anxious and then either disrupts the class or is unable to focus on getting his schoolwork done until he settles down.

My son is 9, he is a lot better now. I tell him he needs to stay calm and in control and if he has problems just to bring them home and I will help him.

So my point is maybe there is something to this anxiety thing. And maybe it runs in my family. Maybe if I can get ahold of this anxiety I can at least decrease my symptoms to the point of where I can ignore them.

So I think that this poster is writing is at least some food for thought.

-43RichyThe43rd
 
Kevintwister,

Thank you so much !!!

I think I need to break from here too, but I will always be grateful to all who helped and supported me through my earlier fears which were quite frightening.

God bless everyone here! :D)

I hope to meet you all one day (in the much much distant future ;) ) in a better place. But till then, may you all find great joy in the little miracles of every day here in this world.
 
Personally, I am glad for whatever helps people deal with a difficult condition, whatever the cause and, for the most part, whatever the cure. I knew in my case that there was a physcial cause to my symptoms and, even if it's not-well known and can't be cured, at least it's 'benign' and I know what I'm dealing with.

We all have anxiety, some of us more than others, that affects our physical and mental health in different ways. I will say that since I found a neurologist who is familiar with my condition and who is treating me with anticonvulsants to control my symptoms, my anxiety level is almost nonexistent. The pain I was in due to cramping was keeping me up at night, now it's not. I intend that to help as much as maybe kevintwister intends with his post.

Judging from what was on list of 'anxiety' symptoms however, I think most people will at least briefly experience many of those things throughout their lives, or even on a daily basis, if they are lucky enough to have a pulse. Giddyness ranks high on my list everyday symptoms anyway. If kevintwister thinks controling his anxiety cured him, who am I to disagree? I'm just of the opinion that, based on what I've read and heard, that simply will not be the case for most people who develope peripheral nerve hyperexciteability. I can post some info by some more researchers of BCFS/BFS/PNHE if anyone else is curious.

And I really like that quote whataprettyworld:

"Reminds me of Spike Milligan's epitath on his gravestone.

I TOLD YOU I WAS ILL"

Gave me a good laugh. Best medicine there is (in combination with neurontin anyways :LOL: )
 
Just a couple of thoughts...BFS is a SYNDROME not an illness or disease. The hypothesis that it is autoimmune is not yet proven but is simply one potential explanation for its genesis. We can be sure though that something in the body is haywire and if anyone here has not noticed at least a connection between anxiety level and symptom frequency and intensity, I'd be shocked. :eek:

It is possible that we each had some sort of vulnerability or predisposition to something like BFS and given some final stressor, be it viral, situational, low dietary intake of calcium or magnesium, or internet accessed ;) ...what resulted was twitches, pain, floaters, panic, multiple doctor visits and so forth. There are very few medical diagnoses (albeit there are indeed some) that do not have an emotional component both in its etiology and/or in its progression.

Each one of us has chosen certain ways to handle it all and with varying degrees of success. Most of us are probably generally keeping our eyes and ears open for additional ways to minimize symptoms. Kevin says his symptoms are totally gone. I for one am curious about that and can't see why he might not have something to teach everyone no matter what the root cause for BFS may be. Kevin is what I would call a "single case study" and until a large sample is diagnosed and treated no one can state with empirical certainty what is a "cure" or successful treatment of BFS (or anxiety disorder, for that matter) or not. In science, claims of success rates have to be quantifiable (meaning "I feel better" is not enough to qualify someone as a "success") but we can still potentially learn from the anecdotal evidence of others as they conduct their own "trials".

Finally, however you want to label it, obsessing about sinister diseases and refusing to take solace in clinical findings unsupportive of disease or syndromes seems indicative of something a little awry in our thinking and coping, doesn't it? And such catastrophic thinking is highly bound to cause anxiety and depression. Our bodies react to such negative beliefs AS IF THEY ARE TRUE and the resultant adrenaline and cortisone rush through our systems will indeed cause a multitude of physical symptoms like racing heart, trembling, choking sensation, shortness of breath, dizzines, headache, chest and muscle pain, etc. If chronic, it can contribute to the development of potentially life-threatening things like cardiovascular disease and certain cancers. Whether you have a biological or psychological or synergistic conceptualization of the syndrome of BF, it seems educating one's self on both the physical and emotional aspects and "treatment" for both would make great sense.

Let's celebrate the "success stories" and keep working on being one ourselves to the greatest extent possible.


[/i]
 
From

Exerpts from one study:

"Brain, Vol. 125, No. 8, 1887-1895, August 2002
© 2002 Guarantors of Brain
Phenotypic variants of autoimmune peripheral nerve hyperexcitability
Ian K. Hart1, Paul Maddison2, John Newsom-Davis2, Angela Vincent2 and Kerry R. Mills3
1 Neuroimmunology Group, University Department of Neurological Science, Walton Centre, Liverpool, 2 University Department of Clinical Neurology, Institute of Molecular Medicine, Oxford, 3 Department of Neurophysiology, King’s College Hospital, London, UK

Generalized peripheral nerve hyperexcitability (PNH) usually presents as spontaneous and continuous muscle overactivity.The clinical features of the motor nerve dysfunction are diverse and include cramps, muscle twitching (fasciculations or myokymia), stiffness, pseudomyotonia (delayed muscle relaxation after contraction) and pseudotetany (spontaneous or evoked carpal or pedal spasm, or Chvostek’s sign) (Isaacs, 1961; Mertens and Zschocke, 1965; Tahmoush et al., 1991). Some patients experience paraesthesias and numbness implying sensory nerve involvement, or hyperhydrosis that might represent autonomic dysfunction or be secondary to muscle overactivity. There may also be associated CNS disorders such as mood change, sleep disorder or hallucinations(reviewed in Newsom-Davis and Mills, 1993; Serratrice and Azulay, 1994; Barber et al., 2000; Liguori et al., 2001).

Associated immune-related diseases
Autoimmune disorders occurred more frequently than would be expected by chance in both groups. Myasthenia gravis was present in 21% of group A and 12% of group B (Table 3). Manifestations of muscle overactivity appeared at the same time as myasthenia in six out of 11 patients and between 4 to 34 years after the onset of myasthenia in the other five patients

Psychiatric features
Eleven group A patients (26%) reported psychiatric symptoms—most commonly isolated mild personality change, insomnia or irritability. One patient also had visual hallucinations and one developed a delusional state. Five of them had raised serum VGKC antibody titres and the two patients with the highest serum titres in our series of 60 patients were the two group A patients with the most florid psychiatric symptoms. Eight of these 11 group A patients who underwent CSF analysis had a mildly raised total protein, but no oligoclonal bands were detected.

A similar proportion of group B patients (22%) reported mild psychiatric symptoms. One of these patients also had vivid dreams and only in this patient was the VGKC titre raised.

Although overall only 35% of patients had raised VGKC antibody titres detected by the 125I--dendrotoxin immunoprecipitation assay, this is likely to be an underestimate. We have previously discussed the relative insensitivity of this assay compared with a molecular-immunohistochemical assay that detects serum binding to frozen sections of Xenopus oocytes injected beforehand with cRNA for an individual VGKC subunit (Hart et al., 1997).

Our EMG data suggest that, in many patients, PNH was more evident distally than proximally. This is in keeping with the previous evidence from detailed peripheral nerve excitability studies of 20 of the patients reported here that spontaneous activity is often generated focally or multifocally at sites distant from the recording electrode over the trunk of the nerve (Maddison et al., 1999; Kiernan et al., 2001). Thus, our present findings together with the evidence provided by these excitatory techniques and previous histological and conventional electrophysiological findings (Isaacs, 1967; Deymeer et al., 1998; Newsom-Davis and Mills, 1993; Vincent, 2000) suggest that, in most patients, the likely locus for the generation of spontaneous discharges is at the motor nerve terminal or intramuscular arborization. This was proposed originally by Isaacs (1961). At these sites, there are VGKCs producing fast K+ currents unprotected by either the blood/nerve barrier or myelin sheath, and thus potentially more vulnerable to antibody-mediated autoimmune attack.

Thus, acquired forms are classed as autoimmune, toxic or degenerative, and hereditary forms are defined by their underlying genetic disorder. This classification has the added advantage of being flexible. It can accommodate new information about the molecular pathogenesis of the syndromes without the need for a fundamental reclassification and should facilitate the testing of new therapies. "


Personally, if I have my choice of taking advice from kevintwister or from Ian K. Hart1 Paul Maddison2, John Newsom-Davis2, Angela Vincent2 and Kerry R. Mills3 1 Neuroimmunology Group, University Department of Neurological Science, Walton Centre, Liverpool, 2 University Department of Clinical Neurology, Institute of Molecular Medicine, Oxford, 3 Department of Neurophysiology, King’s College Hospital, London, UK
I know who I would chose. I like dealing in reality. The reality is that there is a lot of scientifuc evidence beyond this one study that there is an autoimmune component to this disorder fo a number of us. I find that reassuring myself. I don't like long lists of "anxiety" symptoms with no basis in either fact or research. That helps no one with BFS/BCFS/PNH in the long run, though it might help those suffering strictly from health anxiety, of which I'm not one. There are a lot of conditions that have physical symptoms and unproven, though scientifically examined causes, like my husband's arthritis.

To each his own, but success to me means dealing with the facts so that I can be truely better, both physically and mentally, in the long term, not just an emotional short term fix.
 
stevenpaulo,

Why do you come off as though you are the complete authority on this based on your own experience and a few studies?? Your answers are very short and undetailed, not very reassuring and quite unimformative. ..its as though you feel that you don't have to explain things further, you are simply right! :rolleyes:
 
Jenn wrote:
...look at the meds these so called Dr.'s stuff down your throat for anxiety....
_________________


Jenn, don't get angry...I just wanted to say in regard to that comment that that is the whole point in a way- with bfs/pnh its seems like a wide variety of meds are suggested all over this board, all having bad or unknown side effects. And I am sure that there are psychiatrists who will and do want to just stuff meds at someone , and perhaps this has been your experience. But I think Kevintwister was attempting to show that bfs and or anxiety can be dealt with withOUT drugs or meds. If one can come to terms with what is going on with one then the anxiety can become an unlearned pattern. Hope I make sense- PS I do agree with you on meds- I feel like they should be avoided in most situations.
 
I think some of us need to go back and re-read the responses to this post. No one is trying to convince anyone that all BFSers are suffering from anxiety, nor that their symptoms were triggered by anxiety. This post's initial intent was to explain that anxiety is one of the many causes out there - not the only cause.

I personally think the cause can be any of the above.

Kevintwister,

I admire your post and your diligence. Regardless of the cause, anxiety has to be conquered. And if the symptoms stop, then Yahtzee! it was anxiety related. If not, then other avenues can be explored.

eyennyGlimmer,

Its not fair to ask anxiety BFSers to post elsewhere. If we take this stance then we can ask the autoimmune posters to post on an autoimmune site. I think this is open and fair discussion. It can only benefit those coming to this site to find aid.
 
BCFS/BFS/PNH is not fully explained by any length of the imagination. You guys are going in circles about things that have already been debated many times. I hope to see the "anxiety is the cause crowd" back as soon as that can no longer explain their sxs. Sure it makes it worse that is a given but it is not the cause for the vast majority. Some sure do have stress as their cause and reason but very few go long with this theory. What causes it? I don't know....for all I know it could be the lead in the condoms I bought from China. :D)

There is also
Aquired immune deficiancy Syndrome
Down syndrome

I have been on Klonopin for a while now and it "calms" the nerves not the anxiety as it is anticonvulsant. But no one can ever dismiss that anxiety plays a major role in new and old twitchers sxs it is especially effective on the newly afflicted. I just don't freak out anymore and allow the strange sensations to get the better of me. I also try not to argue to much and I hate to see some old timers get themsleves dragged into this. You guys know better. How many times has the anxiety victim not returned to this board. I know! I was one. Jenn rememeber we were also there at one time. Let it play out! For the rest ...if it works for you then run with it because I would love for it to be anxiety but I don't have that luck.
 
Lucy,

You have no idea what you're talking about and you have not done any research into this condition at all. If you don't like research or implications thereof, that's makes no sense at all. I will continue to ask people who are eager to know about their medical condition to look into the studies that have been done by people with MDs and know what they're talking about. What you choose to believe is simply not that interesting to me as it is completely irrelevant to the truth.

Of course we have anxiety over a peripheral nervous system condition that has unusual symptoms. Of course there is a mind-body connection. There is also evidence that a small percentage of people aquire peripheral nerve hyperexciteability and it is a condition that can be treated. No matter how many extensive fake lists of symtpoms Kevin comes up with, no one can refute the science behind the studies that have been done over a number or decades and the evidence they turned up. Have you even seen a neurologist? I have and he knew of BCFS and the symptoms. My new neurolgoist never once mentioned anxiety, but he did mention my seeing a neuromuscular specialist for the stiffness in my leg and the painful cramp in my foot. Get educated on this issue before you go spouting off on this anxiety and other nonsense, please.
 
Sir_Trouserz, I really don't care to fight. - obviously you are just trying to be hurtful and have never read any of my other earlier posts on this site.
 
We are going to have to remove that Saint title because you have a furious uppercut :p

I just wish I were one of the lucky ones who did have anxiety as the cause of the cramps, twitching etc etc.
 
Lucy, I think you are being argumentative without having done any real research and you just don't want to accept the truth about your condition. For that, I feel very sorry for you because it is going to be an even longer and harder struggle for you when you realize you are not going to be in control of your symptoms and they will probably come and go the rest of your life. I'm sorry, but it's true.
 
Keep up the hope Lucy!

This discussion is getting a little too personal...maybe we can ease the topic with a little less intensive discussion on sex, race, politics and religion.

Hey whatapretty world...let's talk about Dawkins and his stance on God in the gaps and irreducible complex systems!
 
This discussion is no different than how it would go if you had a room full of equally trained and experienced neurologists debating their thoughts and opinoins about BFS/BCFS. Since there is little established fact outside the establishment that there are a set of symptoms that hang together on a pretty consistent basis which have come under various diagnostic labels including BCFS, BFS, PNH, to name only a few....and are considered neurological in nature (meaning the brain and central nervous system are involved)...you would find a considerable variety of explanations for how one could acquire the syndrome. My own neurologist said the following things about my symptoms:

1. Fasciculations are common and almost always benign.

2. BFS/BCFS often can be triggered by a period intense exercise. (you will find this suggestion in your searches on BFS).

3. The ringing in my ears was likely related to the anxiety I was feeling about my BFS symptoms.

Interestingly, he offered me no treatment. He did offer to do an EMG to ease any remaining anxiety I might have. I declined.

Some of you have been told other things about your symptoms by your neurologists. Thus my point...and this is not true only for BFS but for many medical conditions. My best guess is consistent with what someone stated above...they are probably ALL correct! Many illnesses have more than one potential etiology...like hypertension, cardiovascular disease, and cancer. They all exist and are "medical" in nature and all have multiple biological/environmental/emotional/psychological variables that can contribute to their genesis.

Like it or not nothing is black and white, especially with this disorder. However, if your suffering is reduced by approaching it as such, then good for you. But don't slam the folks who might be a bit more inclusive in their own understanding of their situation. And vice versa.

The more resistance I see in someone, the more I have to wonder just how much the thing they so vehemently must deny is driving them. Why not at least just wonder about that a little? You never know what treasures you might find.

I wish each of you well in your journey...this life. I thank you for coming along side of me and for letting me do the same for you.
 

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