I think im going to start dumping all my nonsense into one thread, partially to spare most of you the agony of listening to me babble and end up with dead ends (its easier to avoid when its just one thread). Partially to give the chat room people something to make fun of on a weekly basis. And partly to help me compile my thoughts. I want to say just as a disclaimer, that i need to write things down. Get them out on paper so to speak. And then sit back and stare at them. I've been doing that on my computer, but I feel like if more brains can see whats written, more brains can digest and determine if its nonsense, or if there might be something to it. More importantly, I dont plan to stop poking around until I've run out of ideas. Which may be tomorrow, or next year. In the meantime I hope you all will be gentle, and understand that these are mostly just to toss ideas out there. Get the ideas and the keywords into the search engines. And as I've said many times before, maybe someone far more brilliant than all of us will happen upon something and tie it all together one day. So the fad of the week .... this week:-------------------------When i play with ideas I try to stick to what we know: Anxiety is a foundational aspect of all this. Anxiety control is a significant HELP to all of this. But there is chemistry behind anxiety. Its not some mushy gooey feeling that floats in the Ether. Its a combination of chemical processes and effects. Sometimes it can look like anxiety but in fact be something else. So i'll try to draw any ideas into this foundational truth about stress. Emotional. Physical. Chemical. Dyfunction. Imbalances. you name it. It can all be stress related. And possibly controlled.I posted a thread earlier on Mitochondrial Toxicity. Something the HIV meds I took are well known for. Long term toxicity. It was the elephant in the room for me, but I didn't entertain the idea until recently because doctors kept telling me it couldn't possibly be the HIV meds. But I had a buddy who is an ER doc telling me he's convinced there was "Some sort of toxicity" from the meds going on. Googling Mitochondrial Toxicity ultimately revealed the poster child for the condition: AZT. All over google. The drug that I took. And I didn't just take AZT. I took three others just like it. All at the same time. For four weeks. 10 pills a day. Have not been well ever since. My neuro finally decided it was "HIv medication toxicity of some sort". Unknown etiology. Fair enough. Well maybe we can figure out what sort it is. And maybe there's something in that puzzle that relates to all of us. Because as we all know, while I may end up with "MT" from medications, you may end up with MT or Mitochondrial Dysfunction from something completely different. Or you may not have MT at all. There are often many causes contributing to an end result. I realize I have touched on Gatorade, Electrolytes, Herpes VIrus, and numerous other possibilities. Its all fun thought experiments really. And i love to hear feedback from people because as Suzi pointed out - I dont know what the hell im talking about. LOL !! That being said:The symptoms of Mitochondrial Toxicity are myopathy and peripheral neuropathy and yes, even muscle spasms and twitching. Pretty common, and on the HIV forums you will see guys on AZT constantly talking about all our symptoms. But that doesn't mean much...The next natural question then becomes - what about everyone else on here? Is there anything that we have in common? Well Mitochondrial Toxicity / damage results in a few major problems: The most significant being Lactic Acid buildup. It can cause an acute Lactic Acidosis that can destroy health. Or it can cause a chronic Hyperlactetemia that lingers for years and agitates and messes things up.Exercise intolerance is heavily tied to "MT" and Lactic Acid buildup. When you push a weight up in the air and feel the burn? That's lactic acid. Its instant. And it is very harsh on muscles. This immediately reminded me of people here commenting that regular workouts help significantly. So I started to think - what is so unique about working out regularly? Well I searched - "What reduces lactic acid" ? You end up on bikers and runners forums. The answer is always the same: Training. Training reduces the threshhold for lactic acid to be produced. Someone who does not work out will have a much lower thresshhold for some "LA" to start squirting into their blood stream. Regular workouts reduce lactic acid production overall. And that allows calming. Stamina. etc. So what about the non workout people? Well guess what shoots up when anxiety is a problem? Lactic Acid. Is heavily tied to anxiety. As is Coritol. One of my other fads of the week was the whole cortisol level discussion. So then I think "Alright why did Gatorade help me, and several others?" Is that possibly tied to Lactic Acid somehow? Again another association. Gatorade helps reduce the need for (or presence of?) Lactic Acid:"A study recently published in the Serbian Journal of Sports Sciences revealed that alkaline water and Gatorade® combined reduced heart rates and blood lactate levels in runners during exercise."So is BFS a lactic acid problem? Who knows. Can we get the levels tested? Yes. Do doctors think the test results are foolproof? No. Because levels go up so quickly and easily from unrelated things like physical exertion, that it can cloud your true "values". However ... this is also an interesting tidbit ... When I stretch .... what happens? I can be sitting here without a single muscle spasm for a few minutes, but then I stretch. Full body. Arms all the way up, leaning back, and then relax. Wait for it .... wait for it ..... Boom - eyelid (because I squinted my eyes) ... shoulder (because I stretched) ... thigh (same reason) .... a bunch of little jiggles .... pop, pop, pop here ... there .... and then .... after a handful of seconds or a minute ... all is calm again. When you go in for a Lactic Acid blood test, they say you shouldn't even walk up stairs to the blood draw room because "Lactic Acid builds so quickly". They also tell you during a lactic acid blood draw not to pump your fist with the little ball, because it will immediately cause lactic acid to build up and be pulled with the blood into the syringe. Thats how fast it happens, and .... well ... maybe that's what makes my muscles jiggle when I stretch. I mean really .... if there is one change going on at that very moment, in that very localized place .... it has to be Lactic Acid right? Maybe. Again - these are just thoughts. Im tossing them out. Do with them what you will.I plan to begin pursuing the whole Mitochondrial Toxicity thing. It may lead me to Lactic Acid excesses. It may lead to a dead end. but if I find something that sounds like we might all share... i'll mention it here. I really do think that there is at least one common denominator amongst most of us. What I might deem (this week) as excessive Lactic Acid, or a dysfunction in Lactic Acid production, may in fact be something 6 steps back in the process like Mitochondrial toxicity, or even further back, that is the "True Cause". Something far more technical than I could ever hope to understand. But sometimes you have to start with "what you know". Even if that means a reproducible effect like what happens when I stretch. And from there you can play with theories. And it can be fun! I love how interesting this stuff is - even if its infuriatingly terrifying at times to experience. I suppose the big question is whether its happening back in the spine area (virus, herpes, bacteria, autoimmune) or if its superficial and happening right there under the skin, with little or no "communication" with the "guys in back". Im leaning towards surface at this point, for absolutely no scientific reason. Maybe because Mitochondrial Toxicity (for my case) is surface. Its in the muscle tissues themselves. And mitochondrial dysfunction or damage *can* be seen with muscle biopsy. If I run into anything strange, I'll let you know. Im definitely going to try to get a muscle biopsy. At least because of the MT issues with the meds I took.I think others here have had Biopsies and they showed no abnormalities right? Let me know. And a question: Does a muscle biopsy *always* include looking for mitochondrial abnormalities? or might that be overlooked on a standard biopsy. The whole MT thing is a very specific disorder. And one final thing: I dont want to be "that guy" who has a unique experience and somehow thinks everyone else fits into that mold. I realize nobody here took HIV meds. But there still could be a common denominator.Until my next theory ...
Dumping My Nonsense Into One Thread
- Thread starter BFSDiner
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scroll down)BFSBStill evaluating my particular situation - meds highly associated with causing acquired mitochondrial disorders, specifically myopathy. I always associated myopathy with muscle pain, and weakness. I started to wonder if myopathy can also present as spasms, twitching, and without extreme weakness.So i did the search, myopathy with no weakness and landed on a condition called Glycogen Storage Disease. Did some looking up on this condition and landed on this page with the table (scroll to bottom).Apparently there are 11 types ... and just like mitochondrial conditions many of them are genetic birth defects, but can also be acquired. My eyes shot straight to "exercise intolerance" on the table, and "cramping". Its so frustrating for me that I always see cramping but rarely see twitching or spasms. As usual that seems to be missing from this chart, but I am starting to learn that its "assumed" when there is weakness of any kind in the muscle. Even if its not outright "sensed" weakness.But no doubt "myopathy" as a disorder is associated with spasms and twitching, as you can see here: Once again in the chart is that theme regarding lactic acid, etc. All implying some sort of muscular level disorder.And once again this theme related to sugars. And the fact that Gatorade helped me (and others here) so much. Its a sugar storage disorder. So shovelilng constant amounts of Gatorade (which several here have mentioned they've done) might reasonably help reduce symptoms of such a disorder. Or eliminate it, if its a temporary situation."The underlying problem in all of the glycogen storage diseases is the use and storage of glycogen. Glycogen is the storage form of glucose (sugar). To briefly review metabolism, a simple form of sugar (glucose) is our bodies’ main source of energy. After we eat, we have too much glucose in our blood, so our bodies store the extra glucose in the form of glycogen (much like we deposit our extra money in a bank). When our bodies need more energy, certain enzymes convert the glycogen back to glucose and withdraw it from the liver and the muscles (just like we withdraw spending money from the bank). Glycogen is a complex material made of individual glucoses linked together in long chains with many branches off the chains (just like a tree). Sometimes GSDs are also referred to as glycogenoses because they are caused by difficulty in glycogen metabolism.Glycogen is mainly stored in the liver and muscle cells, but the kidneys and intestines also store some limited amounts of glycogen.A person with a Glycogen Storage Disease (GSD) has an absence or deficiency of one of the enzymes responsible for making or breaking down glycogen in the body. This is called an enzyme deficiency. The enzyme deficiency causes either abnormal tissue concentrations of glycogen (too much or too little) or incorrectly or abnormally formed glycogen (shaped wrong). Depending on the type of GSD a person has, their enzyme deficiency may be important in all parts of the body, or only in some parts of the body, like the liver or muscle. Typically, the forms of GSD are described by the part of the body that has trouble because of the enzyme deficiency. The categories most often are: the liver only, the muscles only, or both the liver and the muscles. Other systems that may be involved include blood cells (red blood cells, white blood cells, and platelets), heart, and kidneys amongst others."Do with it what you will. Just tossing this out there.
GI Tract Relevant to BFS?Found a video on YouTube of a guy who was stressing hard about his muscle spasms and twitching. I mean his face was sunken in with fear. He looked like he was waiting to hear his death sentence anytime soon. His spasms and neuropathy had gotten pretty bad apparently, and he was just doing a video discussing how he was feeling, and to set a baseline for future videos. But the video was over a year old, and his Channel didn't have any updates. So i sent him a private message on YouTube asking him his current status. He replied the other day saying that everything had significantly dissipated to almost nothing. And he made a side comment that it seemed to be heavily tied to his digestive system. I found that really strange, but of course all the discussions about Candida, and/or yeast / fungal overgrowth popped into my head again.The Enteric Nervous System - its not all in our BrainNow get this though ... when I was researching the effects of the drug Ecstasy on the serotonin system in our body - I found out that the majority of the Serotonin in our body is actually not in our brain, but in our "Gut". In fact, someone who was quite wise pointed out that there are incredible similarities between our brain tissue and our intestinal system. Not the least of which is the very appearance. Apparently the nervous system (and the effects it can have on symptoms) is NOT just your brain/spine. Check this out:It's called a Dual Nervous System, and this is why BFS may not be where we are looking for it. At all. (brain/spine). And the symptoms associated with it may not be originating in those places either. There's even a field of medicine called Neurogastroenterology. "The role of the enteric nervous system is to manage every aspect of digestion, from the esophagus to the stomach, small intestine and colon. The second brain, or little brain, accomplishes all that with the same tools as the big brain, a sophisticated nearly self-contained network of neural circuitry, neurotransmitters and proteins. "Many of us were on Antibiotics prior to the onset of symptoms. It is a globally known fact that Antibiotics do one thing well: Mess up the gastrointestinal tract. I mean if they do one thing to the body, they do that well. I asked the YouTube guy why he felt his digestive system had anything to do with it. He said he realized a direct correlation between when his GI Tract wasn't "in order" and the onset of his neuropathy and resurgence of spasms. There may be something to this. There may not.I can tell you this: I have been on 400mg doxycycline now for 12 days. By day 6 I was a miserable mess. I have never done well on Antibiotics, and I dreaded a 30 day course for my "possible Lyme" diagnosis. Around day 6 I had general malaise overcoming me, despite the fact that I was on heavy Probiotics. I was getting unexplained depression (google doxycycline and depression and you'll see its very common) ... strong fatigue, and my spasms which had abated significantly, were now picking up again. But I planned for this. Prior to starting the Doxy I contacted a friend in India who has access to CIPLA medications, and had him send me a bunch of Fluconazole. Its an antifungal medication that people take typically AFTER antibiotics to try and fix an out of control candida growth / yeast infections / fungal, etc. I figured instead of waiting until the end and dealing with weeks of misery trying to fix what was destroyed, I'd take a small dose of the stuff while on the antibiotics and keep everything under control.Placebo effect, coincidence, or who knows what - after I took the Fluconazole literally all of my side effects disappeared. In a matter of 4-5 hours. Depression lifted, malaise gone, and ... i dont get it ... but I had my first two full days of zero spasms/twitching since this began two months ago. None. Zero. I was sitting in my car last week telling my friend my body suddenly feels calm. Totally, and completely calm. I decided to just enjoy it and see how long it would last, before I got excited. I went a total of about 3-4 days with at first zero twitching, then a little twitching. As I reached another 7 days, things started feeling kind of crappy again, but nowhere NEAR what it was like before. So at the 7 day mark I took another Fluconazole 50mg and again enjoyed an entire day of almost no spasms. I know how BFS goes - you think you've cured it for 2 days and then its back. That's a lesson I learned quickly. So im going to keep my trap shut until I finish the Antibiotics on December 15th. Then I will try the Fluconazole for some decent period of time, and see if it makes any difference. I know it directly controls Candida growth and therefore would "address" the issue of GI tract issues. Assuming they have any impact on BFS at all.Given the fact that the "Other brain" also has neurotransmitters, an abundance of serotonin, and performs almost like the brain - maybe its no surprise that our Brain MRI's are clean, yet we still have symptoms.Maybe they're looking in the wrong place.
A description I found on Mitochondrial Disorders in adults. Relevant or not, who knows:Neuromuscular systemSkeletal muscle manifestations are among the most common manifestations of mitochondrial disorders. Symptoms can range from relatively nonspecific exercise intolerance or exercise-induced myalgia, to muscle wasting or weakness, in a predominantly proximal distribution. All symptoms are exacerbated by inflammatory stress so patients may report prolonged recovery times after minor stresses such as illness or general anesthetic.
Chronic Fatigue Syndrome - the true cause? One doctors assessment.This is an article I ran across - seems to make a lot of sense. A little slim on references. But could contain some helpful suggestions, and a lot of what she says is corroborated on other sites.Some of my own thoughts on the above article:There are some who feel that Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Fibromyalgia, and BFS are very closely tied. I suppose if all we did was have muscle spasms, we'd have reason to wonder if that were true. But even I have now entered into the world of muscle pain, aching, burning, and that ongoing sensation of "Did I just run a marathon? Oh thats right no, Ive been sitting on the couch". Someone recently commented that all of these conditions - even MS, ALS, Fibro, Chronic Fatigue, BFS ... may all share a similar dysfunction (not to be confused with same cause). It was an interesting theory. You could say that BFS (lucky us) is literally at the bottom end of that scale in severity, and duration. Most of us (apparently) eventually get better. Then as you go up the scale, you've got Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. Some people "come down" with that condition, a more severe version of what we all know and love. Other people get Fibromyalgia, the next notch up. Others are hit with Multiple Sclerosis, and others experience the big daddy which I wont mention. Bottom line ? The more I read, the more I see one consistent syndrome among all these syndromes: Mitochondrial Malfunction.Just because I took meds, or someone else did chemo and got it, doesn't mean someone else can't get it from another trigger. There are a lot of people with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (an advanced version of BFS?), and i doubt they all took toxic medications. But they are still dealing with obvious Mitochondrial Dysfunction. It can result in pain, aching, spasms, cramping, neuropathy, ... everything. Mitochondria aren't just in the muscles. They're in the brain, heart, lungs, everywhere. I read the other day that dysfunction can be different in each person. One person may have an abundance of tissue in their lungs which are struggling mitochondrially. Another person (maybe all of us) have more of a nerve/muscle issue. Is it a shock that everyone here is either a Gym rat or a Neurotic type? (me being both). Nerves and Muscles. Shocking ? Possibly agitation and years of abusive workouts, fears and paranoias (nerves) could damage and cause malfunction in mitochondrial processes, resulting in BFS. Who knows? Seems to make some sense to me. Fits in well with all theories for managing BFS too. Anxiety reduction. Limited exercise. Nutrition changes (mitochondria are heavily affected by diet and lipid availability). This is why treating mitochondrial disorders is very much diet and supplement related. The article above is outstanding. Maybe I am the one guy with something to point back to - the meds I took. Maybe all of you are convinced none of this applies because you didn't take meds. This article shows that a sister syndrome to BFS is in fact caused by Mitochondrial dysfunction. So medications are not required to trigger it. Plain and simple. Keep your mind open. Since I do have something to point back to, I am beginning on a regimen that is recommended for those with mitochondrial dysfunction. Literally a week of solid reading and cross referencing PubMed studies reveals this list:1) Creatine2) L-Carnitine3) CoQ10 (in the form of Ubiquinol)4) Riboflavin & Thiamine (B1 and B2)5) R Lipoic and A Lipoic Acid6) Heavy on Fish Oil / Flax Oils (hugely important for Lipid replenishment)7) Vitamin E and Vitamin C8 ) Abundance of leafy green and bright colored vegetables (Juiced is even better for higher quantities) daily.9) Selenium10) PQQ for mitochondrial biogenesis10) Exercise. Slow. Methodical. Light. Gradually increasing exercise. Maybe once every 2 days. But consistency is important. Progress should be made. Just never at a pace greater than what your energy production can handle. You know your limits. Go right to that point and then call it quits. Wait two days. Rest. Then do it again. Damaged muscles must be stimulated and used or they will continued to degrade, and remain damaged. Exercise is the *only* way for this to happen. Nerves take months to heal, once the *environment* has been fixed. Healed nerves and Healed muscles are what we all want right now. Some strongly feel that mitochondrial healing will provide that. For me personally? I am not going to wait around and see if I end up with CFS or Fibromyalgia. Going to take steps today. If I am completely wrong? Worst thing I've done is improved my overall health by about 100 times anyway.Win win.Hope you will read the article linked-to above.
Another thing I ran across today. May or may not be relevant. Let me explain the thought process that got me here:1) I feel like sh*t .... 2) Why do I feel like sh*t ... ?3) Why are my muscles doing this?4) Why are my nerves not working right? Why do I have neuropathy?5) I feel like I've checked everything. 6) What about Statins? People who take statins have our same symptoms. Why is that? Why Statins and not Viagra or Coumadin?7) Statins lower cholesterol. Okay. Assumption: Well they must do something nasty to the body too. 8 ) I'm still convinced mitochondria plays a role. So maybe I'll look on statin forum and see what Statins do to mitochondria.9) Land on a bunch of pages where people are taking CoQ10 to artificially generate energy and recover themselves from damage and symptoms (all muscular related issues and neuropathy).10) Then I stumble on a new study. Apparently someone else wanted to know why people who take Statins are riddled with neuromuscular issues.Comments to note from this thread:"the more the statin lowers cholesterol, the more likely adverse events are to occur.""your cholesterol went down to 150. That's 10 points lower than realage.com claims is the lowest safe level of cholesterol."11) LOWEST safe level? Is there such a thing? I thought the lower the better? Then I hear my moms voice (recently died of autoimmune disease) in my head:"Cholesterol has never been a problem for me. Always abnormally low!"12) Then I land on this page:"Cholesterol gives cells their structural integrity. Cholesterol helps form the protective layer over our nerves, and it is found in abundance in the brain where it helps in nerve synapses and memory.""Merck defines low total cholesterol as anything below 120. This is called hypolipidemia.""A person with low cholesterol may experience moodiness, loss of libido, nerve and muscle problems. "13) Cough. What? Cholesterol helps form the Myelin Sheath? So absense of sufficient fats can deteriorate the Myelin Sheath? Resulting in all of our symptoms?14) I scramble to check my bloodwork when all hell was breaking loose a month ago:Total Cholesterol: 110. According to realage.com I am 50 points below the safe level. According to Merck I am 10 points below the safe minimum. According to some dude on the internet I have hypolipidemia.15) Back track. Myelin Sheath. Runners saturating this forum. Fitness freaks. We avoid fats like the plague. Even those who aren't gym rats may be calorie restriction types. 16) Where was i when this all started? I was at the tail end of a 3 week binge of nothing but salads, dry chicken, and eggwhites. Gallon of water a day. Every day. For a month. Along with serious training. My body fat had dropped like a ton of bricks. I was getting migraines every day. I was calling it "Sugar withdrawal". I dropped caffeine completely. I stopped all sodium. I've had my cholesterol checked before. Just like my mother, it has always been insanely low. So its been like this for years. Add to that partying, drinking, hangovers, followed by heavy gym workouts, lack of sleep, stress on the body, and a total lack of "Lipids" to keep my Myelin Sheath in tact .... followed by one last destructive month of TOTAL fat depletion ..... maybe? 17) And all you runners? Bikers going 100 miles a week? Crazy bastards .... i know all of you are thin as a rail. Super fit and the chicks dig it right? But now riddled with nerve misfirings of your muscles like crazy. Hows your fatty layer around the myelin sheath doing? Falling apart?18) My brain starts thinking this is new research. No doctor is going to be aware of or acknowledge cholesterol "too low" or draw any correlation between that and myelin sheath. Especially when the Total cholesterol range on my lab results goes down to 100 as safe. How can RealAge.com say 160 is safe minimum and Merck says 120 is safe minium, but Labcorp says 99 is where you should start worrying? 19) Everybody is different. Everyone's lifestyle is different. 80% of people I know don't do much physically. They eat whatever and fart on the couch all night while watching Survivor. If that person has 110 cholesterol then maybe they're fine. But someone who is killing it fitness-wise and stressing their body .... maybe for them 110 is disastrous. 20) My brain kept going back to my buddy who is heavy into biology. He's been sending me texts all month saying "You need to get to McDonalds. Now. I ignored him thinking it was absurd. But while looking into that mitochondrial stuff in my previous post - you may notice I started to see the value of Lipids. Fats. I had no idea there was any correlation between Myelin Sheath and cholesterol. Or that fats are IMPERATIVE for proper mitochondrial function. 21) Good fats. Right? Grass Fed meats. Fish oils. Coconut oils. Chicken skins? I don't know. 22) Okay so what about my situation. I took HIV medications. 10 pills a day. I thought this was toxicity from HIV meds. And HIV meds cause mitochondrial damage. Right? So its not mitochondrial damage?23) Fats / cholesterol / lipids are necessary for mitochondrial health. Fats / cholesterol / lipids are necessary for nerve protection and proper function. 24) What else do HIV medications do? They cause extreme spikes in Cholesterol. Yup. I mean they only do two dangerous things to a body:a) Sugar spike (risk of diabetes). b) Cholesterol spike.And I didn't feel unwell until *after* the medications. It's such a mystery to everyone why HIV meds cause mitochondrial damage. Well it screws with your lipid profile. That's why. A spike followed by a huge skydive .... followed by months of low lipid levels can and will mess up your mitochondria and nerves. While I was on the meds .... I was fine. It was after I stopped taking them that all hell broke loose. Exactly 2 weeks after finishing the meds, what do you think plummeted? After being artificially raised by a medication? My cholesterol. Skydive. And it hit me like a mac truck that day. So there is still a valid connection between Me, HIV meds, cholesterol levels, all of you possibly, and whats happening.Is this even true? Your cholesterol can be too low? Is that what's happening to me right now? What is your current total cholesterol? Have you had it checked? Dont assume if you're a chubby that you have high cholesterol. My mom was a chubby and I was becoming a chubbster before that last 3 weeks of fat destroying. Cholesterol is independent of body weight. -----------------------------------------------------------I should note. I realize this may be a stretch to assume that everyone here has low cholesterol numbers. But but the issue still may be related to the functioning of the body and sufficient healthy fats are still part of a proper diet. So once again we come back to food intake, and worst case scenario, you will be eating healthier. However I really believe with the strong correlation between mitochondrial health, nerve health, and muscle health being so closely tied to lipid intake (healthy fats - and i dont just mean popping a fish oil capsule) ... it would be a worthwhile endeavour for everyone here to focus seriosuly on increasing their healthy fat intake. The myelin sheath is nothing more than fat. It doesn't care about your six pack. In fact it probably hates your six pack. In the remote chance that this is going on with some of us, I dont know what the turnaround time for recovery and relief of symptoms would be. When I look at most people who took statins, they seem to only assume a CoQ10 deficiency (because their symptoms relate to mitochondrial dysfunction). So they pop the CoQ and I think artificially have energy generated from a surplus of that supplement. Most of them say it can take a year to a year and a half for recovery. Many BFSers deal with symptoms way past that stage. But have any of us ever thought increasing fat intake was the solution and tried it? I think nerves that are damaged take months to heal. As would mitochondrial turnaround. So i need to focus on getting my cholesterol numbers in range and then give it time. You may laugh because I was so gung ho on Gatorade not too long ago. Sorry. It still fits. Glucose is energy, and mitochondria need energy so if they're malfunctioning due to any reason, a surplus of any other part of the enzyme chain reaction will help. Probably why CoQ 10 helps even if these people arent technically deficient.I'll keep reading.